Fr. James Martin SJ: a conversation with Vatican Radio

Fr. Martin took time out of his packed schedule to visit Vatican Radio, and spoke with us about a broad range of topics, from the power and perils of social media, to the right disposition of Catholic citizens in public discourse, to the profoundly Ignatian forma mentis of Pope Francis.

Click below to hear Fr. James Martin, SJ's extended conversation with Vatican Radio

Asked about what it was like to see a little history being made in the Basilica of St. Paul Outside the Walls, where on Monday, Jan. 25^th, 2016, Pope Francis unexpectedly and in one of his unscripted moments took the unprecedented step of inviting the representative of the Ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople, Archbishop Gennadios, and the representative of the Archbishop of Canterbury at Rome, Anglican Archbishop Sir David Moxon, to join him in giving the final blessing, Fr. Martin said, “My first thought was, ‘This looks fantastic!’ and then my second thought was, ‘I wonder if this has ever happened before?’ because I’ve not been in Rome [often] and I thought, ‘maybe this is the tradition, that the Pope invites two people – but something told me that this was very unusual,” he said. “It was very beautiful,” he continued, “beautiful visually, and beautiful theologically.”

If theologians of various stripes will be debating the significance of that gesture for some time to come, it is certain that Pope Francis has, by word and deed, garnered and kept a great deal of interest both in Catholic circles and in the broader secular media. We asked Fr. Martin what the source of Pope Francis’ stylistic liberty might be, and he answered with something that might fairly be described as a key to interpreting Francis’ language.

“I think that many people are unaware that much of what he says is Ignatian spirituality – in terms of freedom, detachment – even the ‘discernment’ that happened during the Synod – that’s a Jesuit word,” he explained, one that comes into the Jesuit spiritual lexicon from the broader Christian tradition and there acquires a particular strength of significance. “He’s doing it in language that people can understand,” rather than merely quoting directly and at length from the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius.

The Pope has enjoyed a good deal of good will in world press and media, of which some in both Catholic and secular circles are perhaps suspicious, even as people who do not share all or even some of the Church’s basic presuppositions continue to be attracted by Francis.

“One of the things I get angry about sometimes,” said Fr. Martin, “is when people say that it’s terrible that Francis is doing things in a new way, and look at all these people who are being attracted to the Church – they’re being attracted just because of Francis.” He went on to say, “We need to be happy that people are attracted to the Church for any reason – then the challenge is to keep them there, and it’s not about Francis, and it’s not about John Paul, and it’s not about Benedict (each of whom attracted people to the Church in different ways and for different reasons) – it’s about Jesus Christ, and I think [all three of the aforementioned] would agree about that.”

Fr. Martin’s mention of anger offered an opportunity to turn the conversation to the US Presidential election season. With more than 60 million citizens who self-identify as Catholic, the “Catholic vote” within the US electorate is sometimes viewed as a prize for which to contend. Catholics, however, find themselves increasingly on different sides of hot-button political and social issues. We asked Fr. Martin what he thinks it is important for Catholics, especially, to remember as they enter the election season with their fellow citizens.

“Always give people the benefit of the doubt,” he said. “Always speak charitably, always speak lovingly: never name-call, never – in the case of [intra-Catholic conversation] – call into question someone’s faith, and in the case of politics, someone’s patriotism.” “[That] we should always give people the benefit of the doubt,” Fr. Martin explained, is a good paraphrase of the idea that St. Ignatius places at the forefront of his Spiritual Exercises. “In the Church, and in the State, too, it is always good to remember that people are trying their best – and even if they’re not trying their best, [it’s good] not to assume that [they aren’t]: always to approach people – as Jesus did – with an open heart – I think that’s a good thing to remember as we move into this somewhat contentious season.”

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